Perspectives on Blackness and Coloniality in Today’s Netherlands

A CONVERSATION WITH LIS CAMELIA AND FAYO SAID

From Suriname and the so-called “Dutch Caribbean” (Curaçao, Sint Maarten, Aruba, Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, and Saba) to Indonesia and West Papua, as well as South Africa, the legacy of Dutch colonialism and its racializing process are enduring. This conversation with Lis Camelia, and Fayo Said, offers two perspectives on such an endurance – it was originally conceived with a third one, that of a West Papuan activist in the Netherlands. What are the differences and similarities between the political experiences of a Curaçao-born Black person and an Oromo person whose family migrated from the African Continent to the Netherlands, without having a historical relationship with Dutch colonialism? What common ground does Blackness allow to form communities that extend the strict geographical background? We reflect on these questions and more.

LÉOPOLD LAMBERT: Could each of you describe their and their families’ relationship with the history of Dutch colonialism, as well as its persisting racialization and anti-Blackness?

LIS CAMELIA: I was born and raised in Curaçao and also lived on other Dutch Caribbean islands. My family has a long line of being on the island and dealing with the consequences of racialization there, as well as the dynamics of how Blackness and whiteness are confronted with each other. It had to do with power and wealth, but the country being so small, there is no absolute segregation possible; people are forced to interact with each other in one way or another. On the island itself, the idea of Blackness is very dynamic. That’s when isms such as colorism or texturism play a role: different shades, hair types, or last names…all these things play a role in your access to Blackness, and it also affects your belonging as well.

That dynamic is different when you go to the Netherlands, because once you’re here, Blackness becomes way more concrete. Often, the label “migrant” or “foreigner” is added, even though as someone from the Dutch Caribbean, you only have Dutch nationality. So these ideas of belonging and not belonging are very contextual to the experiences of my family here in the Netherlands, but also back in Curaçao. My family has always been very mixed, not just racially, but also in senses of ethnicity and culture. My paternal grandfather originated from Venezuela; my maternal grandmother’s family is Native. My mother’s side also has German as well as African ancestries. So all these different people that were interacting and living with each other, created different cultures that are mixed with each other. The ways I experience Blackness in Curacao and the Netherlands are very distinct from one another.